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Post by Banana Cat on Dec 30, 2010 3:10:27 GMT -5
Listen, Dixon was the main reason they won two titles, lets be clear on that. Don't take my comments above as completely serious just because I didn't put a smiley face there..."with a lot of help from Dixon and crew" was semi-jest. That doesn't mean you can take away credit from the rest of the team or O'Neal either. O'Neal did a great job and so did the other players. On the other hand, I'll be sure to credit every win Sioux Falls gets in 2010 to Dixon, and none to the rest of the team or Riggs. I sure didn't mean that as a shot at you or Colorado.. Oneal is getting way more credit than he deserves. He is trouble! More to come on this topic... Look at his history, trouble in Billings, trouble in Kent, 3rd team in 3 months! Riggs and Oneal arn't even in the same class.. Dixon left Oneal so he could actually be coached! I feel bad for the few role players who did follow him to Kent. Now they are stuck in that mess for the 2011 season.. "All you followers need to start watching who you follow, they're liable to lead you down the wrong path." I think you're being unbelievably hard on O'Neal. O'Neal had nothing to do with the problems some Billings players had there, unless you have information that no one else has publicly seen. What exactly did he do wrong in Kent, besides not getting paid? Why are you blaming O'Neal for the ownership issue in Kent? I feel Riggs is the best coach, hard to argue with 4 titles in the best league at the time of his titles, but I have to say that O'Neal is in his class. Those two have the best track record in the sport, one has 4 titles and the other has 3 (but the NIFL one isn't as valuable IMHO, but stills shows his history of success). You definitely seem to have a beef with O'Neal for some reason, perhaps hard feelings from last year's title game? I'd let it go though, Sioux Falls is set up for a title run this year (in fact not winning it would be a major disappointment), while O'Neal has to settle for a defensive coordinator position.
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Post by Bouncer_Texxx on Dec 30, 2010 8:24:43 GMT -5
I was going to say, unless storm2010 is privy to information no one else has heard of, one can hardly lay any blame at Coach O's feet for the failures in Billings (he wasn't even at the meeting where no one actually agreed to anything, I listened to the tape, Commission is telling slightly less of a lie), nor Kent, where indoor football is being all indoor footballish...
He may have other issues, and potentially concerns about who he surrounds himself with, but that is not what is being addressed here. between the walls, he won the last two cups, we didn't, for various reasons, we should accept it and look forward, Colorado isn't even on our schedule in 2011 in the regular season.
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psx234
Team Captain
Posts: 281
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Post by psx234 on Dec 30, 2010 9:19:32 GMT -5
I was going to say, unless storm2010 is privy to information no one else has heard of, one can hardly lay any blame at Coach O's feet for the failures in Billings (he wasn't even at the meeting where no one actually agreed to anything, I listened to the tape, Commission is telling slightly less of a lie), nor Kent, where indoor football is being all indoor footballish... He may have other issues, and potentially concerns about who he surrounds himself with, but that is not what is being addressed here. between the walls, he won the last two cups, we didn't, for various reasons, we should accept it and look forward, Colorado isn't even on our schedule in 2011 in the regular season. I'm a little sad that there will not be a Colorado road trip this season, it was great fun last year! Oh well, we'll have to settle for Seattle, Omaha, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Chicago, and Grand Island. Should be a good year!
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Post by indoor on Dec 30, 2010 9:26:48 GMT -5
Yeah, somehow Colorado is out of that bruiser of a division, and though I will miss the Omahas, the Sioux Falls and the Billings, we do get to see new teams.
Tri Cities looks to be tough and Amarillo as well. Hard to say what Wyoming and Arizona will look like. Seems to me though Colorado has increased travel, never a good thing and that Wyoming got a huge favor or something for their travel. How does that work?
I dunno, I'm still liking the O'Neal move but wondering if it might end up a clash between coaches in Colorado. Once bitter enemies now best friends?
Hopefully it will be all about the games and winning where possible.
What about player contracts? Are they contracts with the league to play for teams or are the contracts with the companies that own each team.
My guess is that only the former is workable.
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Post by storm2010 on Dec 30, 2010 10:22:49 GMT -5
Billings fell apart because of the environment that Oneal created... He then goes to Kent and offers inflated contracts to get talent to follow him. At no fault of his, Kent ownership falls apart. Oneal jumps ship and leaves his recruits up a crick with no paddle.. Now players are stuck with no inflated contracts and no way out but to play for minimum or blow the whistle on Oneal.. In this league you are only as good as your qb. He had the best qb in the league. No Dixon and no money = average coach. He may prove me wrong, time will tell... I will give him credit that he is a heck of a recruiter... I have no beef with him, just felt he was getting way to much credit for the success of the best team money could buy!
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Post by indoor on Dec 30, 2010 10:35:00 GMT -5
Cheating? Cheating in the IFL? Surely you jest. I think I'll start a new topic: Which teams cheat.
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Post by Bouncer_Texxx on Dec 30, 2010 11:38:39 GMT -5
Billings fell apart because of the environment that Oneal created... The Oakley guy sure does like winning then, or it would have been over sooner No TB and NO Kent V money = Average team in Sioux Falls the last 6 years...it is best to keep your/our house in order before casting dispersions upon others...
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Post by wichitawild on Dec 30, 2010 14:32:06 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone is treating it as a foregone conclusion that Colorado is somehow a contender now. Colorado most likely win the division as Arizona will be awful and Wyoming is taking a step up. The point is, they would be the favorite in that division whether O'neal was there or not.
I agree with storm2010, O'Neal is an average coach who got lucky to have an owner with deep pockets. Also, there is no guarentee that the former Outlaw players will join him in Colorado. First, they have to get out of their Kent contracts.
Next, the bidding war starts. It sounds to me that this Tuckman fellow was offering the moon to anyone who will listen. O'Neal bought into him and convinced players to join him. There is no doubt in my mind that Tuckman was offering everything with no intention on paying (example: O'Neal himself).
I predict Sioux Falls will end up with many of the former Outlaws. I honestly believe every team in the league overpays a couple key players, nobody is innocent. I just think SF pays the most.
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Post by Bouncer_Texxx on Dec 30, 2010 15:10:47 GMT -5
... I just think SF pays the most. maybe not necessarily the most to a single player, just more on average to more players perhaps... either way, it's all wrong ;-)
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Post by ThrowItTo7 on Dec 30, 2010 21:04:35 GMT -5
Does it seem that maybe the Ice coach is ready to move on in a year and they cut a deal with Oneal to stay in the shadows one year then take over?
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Post by Banana Cat on Dec 31, 2010 2:13:20 GMT -5
Billings fell apart because of the environment that Oneal created... He then goes to Kent and offers inflated contracts to get talent to follow him. At no fault of his, Kent ownership falls apart. Oneal jumps ship and leaves his recruits up a crick with no paddle.. Now players are stuck with no inflated contracts and no way out but to play for minimum or blow the whistle on Oneal.. In this league you are only as good as your qb. He had the best qb in the league. No Dixon and no money = average coach. He may prove me wrong, time will tell... I will give him credit that he is a heck of a recruiter... I have no beef with him, just felt he was getting way to much credit for the success of the best team money could buy! Bouncer addressed most of this, but I have to comment also. I find it hard to blame O'Neal for players breaking the law in Billings, they were adults and made their own decisions. Did he know about what was going on?...I have no idea. Until it's proven he did though, it's a pretty harsh accusation you're making on his character with nothing to back it up. Inflated contracts in Kent...lol...yeah, that doesn't happen with the Storm or any other team. I can't blame O'Neal for leaving Kent. If I wasn't getting paid I'd leave as well. I read an article where he told the players he recruited there to look for other opportunities and I would've done the same. I find it hard to blame O'Neal for the player's fates, he has no control over ownership problems. If the IFL decides to hold those players rights to Kent, then the players have no recourse but to go to another league or do something else for a year. We all know that the players were more than likely getting paid more than they were supposed to (only the ostriches think otherwise). I don't see how the IFL can release their rights. I mean, to release their rights would be pretty much be admitting that they were getting paid more to play there. Coaches and owners change all the time and players rights are not released, so I don't really see a valid reason they'd do it here (and if it is done, they're basically condoning paying under the table). A good QB goes a long way, but I don't believe the best QB in the league wins the title every year...do you? You need a top QB, but you also need an offense, a defense, and good coaching. A marriage of that is usually what wins you a title. If you want to say O'Neal is a nothing of a coach, I definitely think you are in the minority and like I said before it sure seems like sour grapes from the Storm getting beat in the championship. I'm only judging O'Neal and Riggs by their record and what I've seen with my own eyes, and to me they are both great coaches, some of the best in the business. If you could be more factual and less rumor-oriented in your arguments against O'Neal, then that'd go a long way to converting others to see your side. You have to throw Riggs up there with benefiting from the best teams money could buy category...big time...lol. I think a great exercise for everyone would be to find a successful indoor coach who won despite having a team that was paid the minimum and nothing under the table. If someone says Riggs or O'Neal they're very delusional.
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Post by Bouncer_Texxx on Dec 31, 2010 8:42:12 GMT -5
2009-2010 bil.. **** 2005-2008 sio.. gaosh dang it 2005 Tri-Cities.. well ok maybe...
2004 lex.. crawp
you'd have to go back to the ipfl or the original ifl to stand a chance of finding one that is without a doubt clean.
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